A proposed house bill could affect thousands of undocumented students in the state, including Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program recipients, if passed.

Rep. Kyle Biedermann, R-Texas, introduced House Bill 413 into the 86th legislative session, which formally began earlier this year.

HB 413 calls for undocumented students, like those under the DACA program, to pay out-of-state tuition at higher education institutions.

DACA was implemented during former President Barack Obama’s administration and allows undocumented immigrants brought to the country as children to remain in the U.S. It offers temporary and renewable protection from deportation and permits them to work legally.

Biedermann stated in a November 2018 press release that it’s time to end in-state tuition qualification for undocumented immigrants.

Proposed house bill HB 413 could reverse DREAM Act, impact DACA recipients

“I am proud to fight for the taxpayer. Magnet policies that benefit illegal immigrants hurt citizens and those who immigrated here legally,” he stated. “We must remove these magnets and protect our border.”

Currently in place is HB 1403, also known as the DREAM Act, which allows people who are not permanent residents or citizens to be classified as residents for higher education purposes, qualifying them for in-state tuition.

HB 413 would reverse the DREAM Act and those affected would pay the increased out-of-state tuition rates.

“It is time to restore respect for our immigration laws and protect our constituents,” Biedermann stated in the press release.

History assistant professor Cristina Salinas said a bill like this one could affect the university’s enrollment and diversity token.

According to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, as of Aug. 31 the Metroplex has the highest concentration of DACA recipients in Texas at about 37,810 people.

UTA is tied for fifth most diverse university in the country, according to U.S. News and World Report.

The university is designated as a Hispanic-serving institution, which makes it eligible for additional federal funding. To receive the designation, an institution must have at least 25 percent of its total full-time undergraduate enrollment made up of Hispanic students.

Salinas said HB 413 is anti-immigrant and shows the change in sentiment among Texas Republican lawmakers regarding immigrants.

Architecture senior Maria Huerta, a DACA recipient, said if the bill is passed it would be a setback. The state would lose people who are contributing to the community without receiving the benefits citizens do.

Huerta added DACA students would lose incentive to stay in Texas, because they can move to another state since they would have to pay out-of-state tuition.

The bill would limit students’ potential, she said. They won’t want to pursue a higher education because this bill would hinder them.

“Dreamers” and undocumented students are not eligible for federal grants and loans.

Rep. Erin Zweiner, D-Texas, said in an email she’s disappointed other Texas Legislature members are once again levying attacks at the Texan immigrant population.

“Dreamers in particular are American in every way except for a piece of paper, and they deserve the same access to a quality education that all Texans enjoy,” she said.

Brent Boyea, political science associate professor, said Republicans in Texas historically have had a good relationship with the Latino community.

Immigration has become a hot button issue with the election of President Donald Trump and is a motivating device for Republicans, he said.

It’s a divide between conservatives who want law and order and those who want to be charitable, Boyea said. That’s the moral argument.

There is also a political argument.

The Republicans who support this bill feel that this is something their base cares about, Boyea said.

The Democrats who are against the bill might believe this isn’t about border security, but about changing the Texas DREAM Act some Republicans don’t agree with.

Huerta said she wants to believe people have good intentions, but feels that in the past year, the government used DACA as a bargaining chip.

Most recently, President Donald Trump offered a three-year protection for DACA students in exchange for the $5.7 billion needed to build a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border.

“It’s really unfair,” Huerta said. “There’s no certainty for what I can plan for my future.”

@itsbrian_10 @NardaLPerez

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(158) comments

Comment deleted.
BillyBitcoins

You don’t even vote lol

BillyBitcoins

I can’t wait for short horn readers to see these arguments. It’s going to make voting republican so much easier on them lol the liberals here are repulsive in behavior and thinking lol

BillyBitcoins

Here are the top 10 countries of origin for DACA recipients:
1. Mexico 2. El Salvador 3. Guatemala 4. Honduras 5. Peru 6. South Korea 7. Brazil 8. Ecuador 9. Colombia and number 10 Argentina

If democrats really care about diversity they would advocate for other ethnicities to become a top 10 DACA recipients. 9 out of the top 10 countries are Hispanic, that’s not diverse at all!

This is an unfair advantage for other countries around the world. My parents immigrated from the Middle East LEGALLY, and paid in state tuition for all the kids....why should someone here ILLEGALLY get the same benefits as a legal?

Mind you it is much harder for people to immigrate to the US because of the illegals taking their turn. Where is the justice?

Democrats do not want justice. They want people who will vote democrat and keep the party alive!

TexasSpirit

This is a stupid argument. What does the country of origin have to do with all of this? I think it rhymes with schmacism.

BillyBitcoins

It proves DACA only gives advantage to one particular ethnicities. That’s not diversity. There are other countries who also deserve DACA...are you being racist against middle easterns now? Or do you think only Hispanics deserve DACA? Either way you are the only racist here sweety

Crcata

Can't beat someones argument, accuse them of racism lol.

UTMavThinker

And Republicans straight up don't want people to vote, because they know that the more that do, the less chances they have of ever winning anything again.

BillyBitcoins

Nah. I used to be a liberal myself. Then I got a real degree in Econ and I know better than to fall for your propaganda. I will never vote democrate ever again in my life. People who truly seek knowledge and facts will become a republican over time. I promise you will too if you’re actually engaged with economics and politics.

Crcata

Dems don't want strong borders or to require ID to vote, because they need voters. Without such, they wouldn't come close to winning.

BreezyLovesMavs

From the article:
“...’Dreamers’ and undocumented students are not eligible for federal grants and loans.”

Look... at the end of the day, the DREAMers are not our biggest problem. The fact this legislation was even brought forth, NOW, is obvious scapegoating and painting a narrative for the base to follow in the midst of what has been the biggest sh*tshow our government, and our country, has ever experienced. There’s some of us who don’t fall prey to smoke and mirrors. There’s an indictment over 60 pages that’s thisclose to Trump Jr. and Kushner. The nexus between these emails and meetings and Trump’s idiotic, public plea to Russia to “release emails” during his campaign is pretty incredible. He got too selfish. He could have just been a rich, old prick. Then his pride got in the way, the butt of a joke... this is the punchline.

Crcata

How close is "this" close? Lol. You say you don't fall for smoke and mirrors but this entire trump Russia conspiracy is smoke and mirrors. Thus far there has been 0 evidence of collusion to take the presidency. Just indictments over finance issues many dating back to before issues Obama took office. Its easy to believe your the exception for smoke and mirrors, but you aren't.

BillyBitcoins

The Russian investigation that has been going on for 3 years now? The one that the NRA, Trump, Facebook and Russian all colluded with? Lol that’s quite an imagination you have there. You watch too much TV

UTMavThinker

It's really amazing that someone can be this much in denial of reality.

Crcata

Says the person who has been proven wrong twice in this very thread and still believes he is right, despite the facts. Astounding what the human mind can convince themselves of lol.

Crcata

You aren't running off anything but pure, raw emotion. Your liberatory movement is fake, based on willful ignorance. It won't work out the way you think it will lol.

Crcata

That being said, in a way I feel like I should thank you JohnPeter. Your rhetoric of "pick a side and get organized" insinuates violence and perfectly showcases exactly why the 2nd amendment is necessary to defend ourselves from the overly radical such as yourself.

Crcata

Yet you could never even begin to justify such a claim, you are simply an identitarian who is obsessed with race determined to see racism where it isn't. White Supremacy as a movement or ideology hasn't been relevant since long before any of us were born, you just wish it was so that you would have a cause to fight for. Since it hasn't been, you will just pretend it has so you have a reason to justify your violence. Gun control is bad, because the radicals like yourself need an unarmed populace because of course you said it yourself, you don't care about laws...you would have one either way. You have been the perfect example of why the 2nd amendment is so important. While I think you are a severely misguided individual, you have done wonders for the right by simply being so open and honest about your desire for violence.

Crcata

Like I said lol, you are genuinely an emotional thinker and your post displays that very well. And yes you did say you are against gun control which is good, its your reasoning that is nonsensical.

Comment deleted.
Crcata

Ofcourse you don't want to engage in debate, you would lose. You are personally attacking simply because you have no factual basis for the way you feel, its pure emotion. You are ok with having enemies because its the internet. Being a "centrist" is a way for both sides which have millions of supporters to find middle ground to meet at to avoid war, its not a bad thing. Trying reason and logic over emotion.

thelonestudent

I have no hate for undocumented immigrants, but if I have to pay out of state tuition for coming from another state, they should have to pay it for coming from another country. When I was in another country, I didn't get to pay local tuition rates. Get real.

TexasSpirit

First of all, in order for undocumented immigrants to get in-state tuition, they have to have met certain requirements such as graduating form a Texas HS, be a Texas resident for 36 months.

Educate yourself. You’re coming to uta, you know how to look things up.

https://forabettertexas.org/images/EO_2017_TxDreamAct_FactSheet.pdf

UTMavThinker

The right doesn't educate itself. The right jumps to its ignorant, uninformed opinions and sticks with them no matter how much the facts prove them wrong.

thelonestudent

I'm not a member of "the right," fyi. You seem very quick to make assumptions.

BillyBitcoins

I’m pretty sure you flunked out of college bro lol

UTMavThinker

Good back to grade school, kid.

Crcata

Perhaps you should take your own advice lol.

UTMavThinker

You realize they've been living here their whole lives, right? Same as their parents who have been here as long as they have? And this whole time they have been paying sales tax, gas tax, property tax, and everything else that anyone else living here has been, right? Or you are you choosing to be willfully ignorant?

thelonestudent

So they and their parents have been here their "whole lives?" In that case, they'd all be citizens. Even just the students themselves would be citizens if they'd been here their "whole lives." (Educate yourself. :P )

thelonestudent


Anyway, I guess all us out of state students also pay the gas tax, sales tax, etc. Why shouldn't we get in state rates, if noncitizens do?

BillyBitcoins

So is everyone in the world a legal immigrant now? Should we just call the the whole world America? Should we be the world police?

TexasSpirit

Imagine being this dense.

UTMavThinker

Damn, you're almost as stupid as Crcata. Keep trying, I'm sure you can reach his level of ignorance if you do!

Crcata

Yea, so stupid yet I have proven you wrong twice in this very thread. I know that just eats you up because your entire persona persists around the notion that you are informed and I brought that crashing down on top of you lol.

UTMavThinker

For anyone here hating against illegal immigrants, I would ask them one question: how have they hurt you? What have they done, exactly, to make you blindly hate them so much?

thelonestudent

How is just not wanting them to pay local tuition rates - which no out-of-state US citizens or international students here on legal student visas get to pay - hating them? I don't hate them, but why should they get a better deal than people who are here legally? That doesn't make sense to me. When I attended school in another country, I "lived" there, but I didn't get to pay the same tuition rates as citizens. I wish.

UTMavThinker

They've been here their whole lives paying taxes along with their family. That's the only reason in-state tuition exists at all.

Crcata

If you are blind to the amount of resources they use when entering and staying in the country illegally, then I would argue you are being purposefully ignorant. No one hates illegal immigrants, only believes (correctly) that they shouldn't be here illegally. Simple as that. Ironically, its your own hatred of anyone who disagrees with the lefts marching orders that forces you to assign hatred for this widely held and reasonable belief.

UTMavThinker

Why don't you describe them, exactly, then? Tell me exactly what resources that they aren't paying for that are any different than anyone else living here.

Crcata

Most sources put healthcare alone at more than 10 billion, varying depending on the estimates used. Are you going to deny that illegal immigrants are often times using healthcare they don't pay for? Willfull ignorance at its finest, something you love to claim republicans have.

Crcata

Or let me guess, because some American Citizens do the same thing you think that justifies it? That must be why you added that last "any different than anyone else" portion. Lol, and if thats the best you have then you are literally proving my point for me.

Crcata

Ever read FAIR report on this? I'm sure you have just have convinced yourself its all lies. Even if they used the most extreme estimations its 115 billion, lower those estimations as much as you want, it won't cover for that total net cost. Even the lowest estimations made to be as generous as possible towards illegal immigrants still show billions of dollars in a net loss for us supporting them.

UTMavThinker

So again, how are they any different from anyone else? You literally just proved my point that there is no objective difference between them and a natural born citizen. The only difference is your hate and bigotry.

UTMavThinker

Honestly, the only loss is society's continued support for ignorant, regressive, backward thinking people like you. I would gladly take ten immigrants just trying to find a safe home for themselves if if meant we could export every person like yourself in exchange that has wrapped themselves in nothing but hate, ignorance, and selfishness. You are a horrible, disgusting human being that literally cares nothing for anyone but yourself. You disgust me and anyone else with any sense of empathy whatsoever.

Crcata

The objective difference is they aren't citizens and aren't supposed to be here in the first place, adding to issues we already have. You have proven my point for me :) lol.

UTMavThinker

So what you're saying is the immigrants are not the issue. Thanks for proving my point.

Crcata

The only regressive person here is you, and like it or not I am not going anywhere. You don't have the power to stop me or people like me. The Supreme Court is ours for most of the rest of our lives. Like it or not, regardless of any political victory democrats obtain we are firmly conservative for the majority of the rest of our lives. But please, continue with your own hate filled rhetoric, it only shows moderates what the new face of the democrat party is. lol

Crcata

Just illegal immigrants like I said. Thanks for proving my point :)

UTMavThinker

That really shows how little you understand anything. You think the supreme court has to remain its current size? Laughable how little you know. You think Trump is going to be re-elected, let alone finish his first term? Your delusion is really sad. You keep telling yourself that things are going to be conservative for ever; the fact is, you, and others supporting your special brand of weaponized ignorance are a dying breed. You're going away, fading into irrelevance. Pretty soon, your sad and backwards philosophy will be nothing more than a footnote in a textbook, preluding a chapter on progressive prosperity. You're so angry, because you know how empty and powerless you are, and how ultimately baseless are your beliefs. The world is moving past you; you can choose to remain stubborn in your ignorance, or you can join the rest of us moving forward.

Crcata

Another introduction to something you claim I am guilty of while portraying it yourself haha. You think you can just up and change the number of SCOTUS', you need votes for that lol. Votes you simply don't have, and won't have. I'm not telling myself anything, just following the evidence to its reasonable conclusion. Radicals like yourself are losing, and will likely continue to lose. The only backwards philosophy present is the radical lefts identity politics. "just believe", remember that? Lol. You are on the wrong side of history, like it or not.

UTMavThinker

Yes, the number of SC can be changed. That you think it to be impossible shows just how ignorant you are. What do you think is going to happen in 2020 when Democrats take back control of the presidency and both houses of congress? You think they're going to just let the previous four years of Republican treason and Russian obeisance be forgotten? Republican philosophy is against everything this country stands for. Trump is a glitch, one that will soon enough be corrected. Your backwards, regressive policies will be reversed, and this country will be put back on its proper course. Keep telling yourself otherwise, it'll just make it worse for you when the inevitable happens.

Crcata

Didn't say it was impossible, I said you need votes. But of course you know that but its easier for you to refute a straw man instead of the actual argument. Because otherwise you have no argument lol. Like it or not, you simply don't have the votes. Oh yes, Trump Russia conspiracy. Literally 0 actual evidence, only circumstantial evidence and conjecture and you are so convinced its true hahaha. Literally the epitome of easily manipulated. Like it or not, it is the regressive radical left that is being reversed and losing power. You can pretend its not happening but it most certainly is lol.

Crcata

I never claimed that illegal immigrants are going to school solely on the tax payer dime. Again, this is a straw man you have created simply because you don't want to address my actual points and I see why now lol. Everytime you try to refute my actual points you get proven wrong, so refuting made up straw men is about your best bet lol. My original claim since the beginning has always been that illegal immigrants DO use tax payer money and its not a net positive. Again, this is objective fact.

UTMavThinker

Zero evidence? What is wrong with you? 38 indictments so far? Almost every single person on his campaign charged or involved with some form of Russian connection? And yet you still say there is nothing there? How much more in denial can you possibly be?

And as for the votes, again, what do you think is going to happen in 2020 when the traitors are voted out of office? Do you think everyone is going to just forget your crimes? You really need to get a grasp on reality.

UTMavThinker

Oh, and being reversed, like, having the largest amount of Democrats elected to the House since Watergate? That kind of reversed? You realize that the House represents the population of this country, and that population voted to soundly reject the regressives on the right, don't you? Or are you really living in that much denial? That's rhetorical by the way, your responses here prove that you have no idea at all what is going on in the real world.

Crcata

In 2020 regardless of the outcome of the election you will not have the votes to increase the size of the Supreme Court lol. But by all means cling to that lol. And yes, 0 evidence of Trump Russia collusion. Literally no person has been arrested or charged with anything that pins Trump as a puppet of Russia. They have been finance related and dating back for issues before even Obama was elected lol. Like it or not, there is no actual evidence of Trump Russia collusion and you are stuck with a conservative Supreme Court :)

Crcata

You LOST power in the senate and won seats in the house by typical margins. It wasn't very long ago you lost both the senate and the house and the POTUS in one fell swoop lol. While you gained a bit of power in the house, ultimately it is moderate democrats taking these positions and moderate democrats aren't the ally of radical leftists such as yourself lol.

UTMavThinker

How deranged are you? By "typical margins", you mean by a historic amount? Right-wing media absolutely has you brainwashed. Keep gloating about the SC. You're a loser, your president is a loser, your philosophy is the philosophy of losers. And you're going to keep losing. You lost the fight for the wall. You're going to lose in 2020. People have woken up to what happens when regressives are allowed to run rampant; 2016 will never happen again. So enjoy it while it lasts.

Crcata

No, it is you who is delusional if you think there is anything historic about you taking the house in the manner in which you did lol. You literally lost seats in the senate. Whats historic was when you lost all 3 positions of the government lol. You lost them, because the radical left is losing. Even now, the seats of the house have filled with moderate democrats who appeal to moderates just with a D with their name. They aren't the regressive left as much as you may want to believe that lol.

UTMavThinker

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/14/667818539/it-was-a-big-blue-wave-democrats-pick-up-most-house-seats-in-a-generation

Literally the most gains since Watergate - the last time a Republican traitor was facing impeachment. But go on, keep trying to make yourself feel picking up Senate seats in heavily Republican areas was a victory, especially when 2/3 of the seats up for election were held by Democrats. You can try to twist around the numbers all you want, but it won't matter: you lost in 2018, and you're going to lose again in 2020.

Crcata

You continue to prove my points lol. You gained the house, nothing historic there. When you lost all 3 major areas of our government...THAT was historic lol. Continue believing the pendulum swinging slightly in your favor is historic lol, you seem to "just believe" quiet often.

UTMavThinker

I love how you refuse to acknowledge the objective facts right in front of you. But that's a Republican for you- ignorant to the core, in denial of reality. Have fun losing in 2020, loser.

Crcata

I haven't refused to acknowledge any facts, I have simply pointed them out. Twice in this very thread I have proven you wrong and yet you somehow have convinced yourself you are still informed lol. You gained the house as was predicted based on the history of our politics. Nothing historic there, whats historic is losing all 3 so quickly as occurred recently to dems lol.

BillyBitcoins

I pay more taxes and obey more laws. Plus we should only allow legals in. Much more productive than illegals

TexasSpirit

I’m sure you do buddy. I’m sure you do.

R1c0c4et

Let's start by using proper terminology. "Undocumented students" isn't even a real thing. "Illegal alien students" is the proper terminology. And if you're allowing illegal aliens to enroll, that affects the ability of foreign nationals here with student visas.
This policy of allowing illegal aliens to enroll shows a lack of caring on the university's part, for immigrants.
The university should be ashamed of this practice and change immediately.

UTMavThinker

Such ignorance, much wow.

It's really amazing how much capacity for hate the right wing has.

Crcata

For someone who talks about the "right wing hate" you have demonstrated far more hatred than anyone else on this platform.

UTMavThinker

Because I've run out of tolerance for the willful ignorance of the right-wing lunatics in this country.

Crcata

Yet you have portrayed yourself as willfully ignorant time and time again. Remember when you claimed Trump said that white supremacists are good people? Remember when that was proven to be objectively false yet you never admitted you were wrong. You are literally everything you think you hate in republicans.

UTMavThinker

He did say they are good people. Nothing about that was ever objectively proved otherwise, because it is exactly what he did. You are literally lying right now, and it doesn't even phase you. That is exactly why you deserve absolutely zero respect whatsoever.

Crcata

Here you are so comfortable in your position of willful ignorance. He stated there were good people on both sides of that protest. That is an objective fact. Yet you lie and pretend he said "white supremacists are good people" simply because you want that to be true. You want it to be true so much you will simply "just believe". Astounding how someone can sit so comfortably in hypocrisy, yet you make it look so easy lol.

UTMavThinker

It's amazing how someone can be so willfully ignorant, so in denial of reality. How hard would it have been for him to condemn the alt-right marchers? Apparently pretty hard, because he knows that racists and nazis form the core of his voters, and he didn't want to distance himself from them. Nobody that marches with nazis is a good person. Nobody. But did he say that? No. "Good people on both sides". Get out of here with your lies and willful denial of reality.

Crcata

Calling others in denial of reality while you literally sit here, recognizing you are wrong yet unwilling to confront that reality lol. He has on multiple occasions, and during that exact occasion, stated that white supremacists are bad people and he condemns them. Of course you know that, you just refuse to accept it because it doesn't fit the narrative you so desperately want to believe. You are objectively wrong, burying your head in the sand won't make that go away lol.

UTMavThinker

Talking about burying ones head in the sand, I don't know if that's hilarious, ironic, or just plain sad coming from you. Trump has never flat out denounced the alt-right. Every single thing he has ever said has been with measured words filled with ambiguity because he knows that at its core, those people form the base of his supporters. He knows he cannot denounce them, because without the hate-filled ignorant mobs, he never would have won the election. So again, your words mean nothing because you have nothing, and you know it. You're a liar, plain and simple.

Crcata

Yes, he has on multiple occasions. Astounding you literally deny it happened despite video evidence of it occurring. He has directly condemned white supremacists, KKK, Nazi's, and racism. You can pretend it didn't, because you aren't interested in in truth. But nonetheless, it objectively occurred. For someone who calls others a liar, you seem to have no problem lying lol.

UTMavThinker

When, show me when. Show me one, undeniable, unequivocal instance where he has condemned and denounced the alt-right, without mincing words or hedging his bets. Show me once.

Crcata

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6PFZNruJes. Boom. But of course, I predict you continue to put your head in the sand because this won't paint the narrative you want it to.

UTMavThinker

Yeah, keep believing his lies. How long did it take him to make that statement? And how long until he went right back to his hate speech? You post his lies like that proves anything; it doesn't. If you think he wrote a single word in that speech, you're out of your mind.

Crcata

You said he never did, I proved you wrong. You can call it a lie, very predictable lol. You literally didn't even know he said that until I showed you. How can you be that uninformed lol? You had to be shown that in a public forum as opposed to simply watching the news and keeping a variety of sources. You didn't know this, because you didn't want to know this lol simple as that. And of course now that you have been proven wrong, you call it a lie lolol. Again, for someone who accuses others of lying you have no problem doing it yourself.

UTMavThinker

I said show me an example that wasn't hedged. A pre-written speech by one of his speech writers is hardly sincere. Show me an instance from any of his hate rallies where he condemns the alt-right live in front of crowd. You know you can't, because the alt-right are his supporters and he would never condemn them to their face because he is a coward.

Crcata

It wasn't hedged, it was exactly what you asked for. You demanded to see evidence of a time he has ever denounced the alt right. You denied he ever did, and I objectively proved you wrong. You can get angry about that, you can move the goal post as much as you want but it is documented how you were proven wrong lol. He did, you were completely unaware because you enjoy having your sources lie to you and being uninformed.

TexasSpirit

I’m surprised you’re actually concerned about foreign nationals. Are you sure you’re not using them as fools to spread hate?

Negan

First off if you came here illegally you should be made to exit the country and sign up like everyone else. No special privilege for the law breakers, that doesn't make sense. Also you should pay a penalty for your cost on our society to even be considered. Why not make the tuition for illegals 4x the regular rate? They could fund tuitions for underprivileged Americans. We need help, not the foreigners. They need to go home and fix their countries, its time. Look what the Venezuelans are doing. They are rejecting the Democratic Socialist Maduro, they are helping at home, not fleeing and making others pay their way.

UTMavThinker

You should be made to exit the country. Your hate, ignorance and pure stupidity has no use here.

Crcata

No, he shouldn't. But again, your own hatred shines bright. Your hypocrisy is at a point I think its purposeful lol. There is no way someone could unwittingly be this hypocritical UTMav

UTMavThinker

He really should. This country doesn't need such astounding amounts of ignorance.

Crcata

No he really shouldn't, you have portrayed more ignorance on this platform than him lol.

UTMavThinker

He really should, along with you as well. Your amount of pure ignorance and lying is the more damaging than any illegal immigrant trying to get an education. The fact that you can't see this just shows even more how deranged you are.

Crcata

No he shouldn't, nor shall I go anywhere. I am here to stay, and you simply lack the power to do anything about it. You have demonstrated your willful ignorance in this very thread yet you claim to hate others for it lol.

UTMavThinker

Yeah okay calm down tough guy. Go hug your guns or something. You can keep trying to use my words all you want, it won't matter. The reason you do it is because you have no thoughts of your own, only what your right-wing masters have spoon fed you to think.

Crcata

I'm calm and see no need to hug my guns. I'm not "trying" to do anything, I am effectively showing you your own hypocrisy. All my thoughts so far have been my own based on facts that I have directly demonstrated to you. Funny, this is another thing you claim I am but demonstrate so well yourself. Your points are literally talking points. Your "9 impeachable offenses" post you made recently was literally copy paste of an already debunked article. You literally copy paste your talking points yet claim my thoughts aren't my own. Again, the hypocrisy is astounding lol.

UTMavThinker

You've demonstrated nothing but your ignorant slavishness to debunked regressive philosophy. You've yet to demonstrate a single fact backing up anything you say, and have done nothing but deflect when you have be proven to be incorrect. It's not surprising; that's how Republicans act. You can't win an argument based in reality, so you create lies and falsehoods and claim victory when people stare at you in disbelief in how astoundingly ignorant you are.

Crcata

Everything I have demonstrated is factually correct and verified by multiple sources both left and right. Your inability to see that is your own short coming nor has any of it been debunked. Yet your claims specifically around Trump never condemning white supremacists literally have been lol and I demonstrated that as well. I have presented by arguments well, yet in typical radical left fashion you have done nothing but insult and attack. Again, you are everything you claim you hate.

UTMavThinker

You say that yet offer absolutely no proof, because you have none. You're locked in the same mentality of your daddy Trump: anytime you hear something you don't like, you stick your fingers in your ears and pretend you didn't hear it. Then you make up utter nonsense claiming it as the truth and pretend that the matter is settled. You're literally divorced from reality. You have no concept of objective truth because all you surround yourself with are lies.

Crcata

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6PFZNruJes. Proof. Yet of course you will just claim the video is edited, or any other number of conspiracies simply because it doesn't show the narrative you want it to show lol. How could you have missed this lol? Again, astounding at how easily and willingly you allow yourself to be manipulated.

UTMavThinker

And he made that statement after being berated for how long, exactly? And how long did it take him to go right back to hit hate rallies marching against evil immigrants? His original remarks stand, "Good people on both sides."

Crcata

You made the claim he never did, I proved you wrong. Next you will want him to do so while wearing a smash the patriarchy shirt lolol. You can continue to move the goal post all you want as I knew you would, but you are only hurting your credibility further lol. You can pretend to be interested in truth, but its clear you aren't. You wanted me to prove it, I did. Objectively. :)

UTMavThinker

Someone talking about being manipulated while taking the words of the king manipulator as gospel. You truly are lost.

UTMavThinker

A Trump supporter talking about moving goalposts now? Oh, lets see, first it was no contact with Russia, then it was contact but not collusion, then it was well maybe collusion, but collusion isn't a crime? Dude, you're absolutely pathetic. You can't make a single statement without showing how much of a hypocritical, absolutely blinded hack you are.

UTMavThinker

And yeah, reading a speech handed to him by a speechwriter to try to make amends after repeatedly shooting himself in the foot doesn't cut it, sorry.

Crcata

Yep, I am bringing up manipulation. Because so far I have proven that your talking point around Trump never condemning the alt right wrong. You were convinced that never happened and I objectively proved you wrong. You have moved the goal post in order to make a vain attempt to protect your position. But I blasted your position, and everyone is going to see it lol.

UTMavThinker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd6eRRjthxY

The words of a uniter. You follow a dictator; at least you count own up to it.

Crcata

You have no proof of that claim. Astounding haha. You demand proof and get proof, then just make up nonsense claims out of no where without any proof to support it whatsoever, nor could you ever begin to. Again, for someone who calls other people liars you demonstrate that you are one lol.

Crcata

Trumps done nothing to qualify him as a dictator lol. You just throw out accusations hoping something will stick lolol.

UTMavThinker

Yeah nothing other than holding the lives of millions of Americans hostage unless his demands were met. You're absolutely clueless. It's really sad, man. Really, really sad.

Crcata

That was democrats holding people hostage by refusing to negotiate. Again, you called him dictator and yet he has done absolutely nothing to qualify him as a dictator. You simply think up names to call people and fling them out without evidence. That seems typical of your MO.

TexasSpirit

Did anybody say American taxpayers are paying the tuition of undocumented immigrants? Undocumented immigrants are more likely to pay out of pocket. Educate yourself, I urge you to, please. We can no longer have such ignorance in the state of Texas.

UTMavThinker

Finally somebody else that gets it.

Crcata

Are you making the case that NO illegal immigrants go to school off tax payer money? Just trying to know what your position is before I refute it, I would hate to put words in your mouth.

UTMavThinker

You realize they can't apply for any sort of aid, right? No, of course you don't, because you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. And you also realize that they do pay just as many taxes as anyone else living here, right? You might, but you'll never admit it, because it would make you look like a lying fool.

Crcata

You realize that you are wrong right? No of course you don't, if they didn't get aid at all they wouldn't come here in droves. They come here because they are objectively receiving aid from tax payer money that they in many cases are objectively not putting into. You have convinced yourself of so many falsehoods lol.

UTMavThinker

You're completely full of it, and what's frightening is that I'm really not sure if you even realize it or not. Either you do, and you're just worthless liar, or you don't, and you've blocked your mind off to objective reality because you'd rather be cocooned in the delusionary world created by right-wing lunacy. Either way, you are an entirely useless individual to a progressive and productive society.

Crcata

And once again you can't even begin to refute my claims, nor justify yours. You are so emotional in your thinking you simply refuse to accept any facts you don't like regardless of how they are objectively true. I have long wondered how people like can manipulated so easily, yet here you are right before my very eyes lol. All it takes is to give people someone to hate, and you have decided you hate republicans and through that hate you turn a blind eye to your own willful ignorance lol. Luckily, with the Supreme Court firmly in conservative hands for most of the rest of our lives, I won't have to worry about to much nonsense occurring by the radicals such as yourself.

UTMavThinker

Your claims have nothing to refute because they're completely baseless. Lol yeah go back go bragging about the supreme court, I'll be laughing when your orange traitor is sitting behind bars. You live your life in ignorance, spoon fed hate and stupidity by right-wing media, and you eat it up because you are too mentally deficient to come to a logical conclusion on your own. Nothing you have said is of any merit whatsoever, or has any at all factual basis. You're literally just repeating the lies you've been told because they make you feel good and you've never even tried to discover if they're true or not. Keep on reveling in your ignorance, because this wave of Republican regression is going to end soon, and your lies are all you are going to have left to keep you feeling comfortable at night.

Crcata

You don't even attempt to refute my claims because you know you can't. You call them baseless yet they are the facts as presented not just by republicans, but democrats as well. You simply ignore them in favor of emotion. Again, you simply call anything you don't like "without merit" despite the abundance of evidence and sources to back it up. No matter how much exists, you simply turn a blind eye and claim it is others who are willfully ignorant. Yet, again you pretend Trump never condemned white supremacists, despite the fact there is multiple occasions of it reported by multiple sources and video supporting it. Republicans are the progressive ones, for all their short comings. It is the extremists such as yourself which are losing power and will likely continue to as moderates continue this slow take over of the democrat party.

TexasSpirit

No I’m not. Still, educate yourself.

UTMavThinker

You have no claims, nothing to refute. Why are you even still here? How many times are you going to repeat the same lie, as if saying it enough will somehow make it true? You can't refute the ramblings of a lunatic, which is exactly what you are.

UTMavThinker

And yeah, Republicans are the progressives? Do you even hear yourself lying, or does it come so naturally that you just tune it out at this point? Progressive, like openly declaring that increasing the ability for people to go out and vote is a bad thing for democracy? That kind of progressive? You're literally talking in double-think. 1984 was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual. Maybe you didn't get the memo?

Crcata

Good, because that would have been pretty ignorant. Still, perhaps you should take your own advice.

Crcata

I have plenty to refute, you just don't even attempt to try because you know the facts are not on your side. I am here because I can be, I don't care if you like it or not.

Crcata

Yes that is correct, because they are. Its the radical leftists like yourself that are overly obsessed with race, who see racism where it isn't. Who demand people "just believe" women regardless of evidence. Yea, the radical left is most certainly regressive and the republican agenda of capitalism and actual equality is progressive.

UTMavThinker

You've yet to say a single factual thing. Everything you've said so far has been a lie. Really not surprised though, as your definition of "winning" is probably the same as the lunatic in chief currently in the White House. How's that wall coming along, anyway?

UTMavThinker

And you've still never refuted the original point: prove that illegal immigrants are going to school purely on the taxpayers dime. Go ahead. Prove it.

Crcata

Everything I have said has been factual and I have supplied my sources such as the FAIR study. You simply don't like facts that refute your positions. Your willful ignorance is astounding lol.

UTMavThinker

Meanwhile blind liars like yourself deny racism exists because it either makes you uncomfortable to think about or you're a racist yourself. Again, tell me how denying people the right to vote is a progressive policy?

Crcata

I never claimed that illegal immigrants went to school purely on the tax payer dime. That is a straw man you have created simply because you can't refute my actual points. I have claimed that illegal immigrants are a burden on the tax payer, and that is objectively true.

UTMavThinker

And if you think pure capitalism is about equality, you really are deranged. Capitalism is about power, and about those with power gaining more power while those without are pushed down even farther.

Crcata

Never denied racisms existence. Again that is another straw man you have created simply because you can't accept the reality that the lefts treatment of racism is like a boogeyman, seeing it literally everywhere. And denying illegal immigrants, non citizens, the right to vote is exactly what should happen.

Crcata

Capitalism is about meritocracy, equality of opportunity. It is your desire to have equal outcome that is regressive and about power and holding people back.

Crcata

Its capitalism that has given our country the economic power that it holds. Its capitalism that has given super computers comparatively to 10 years ago that can fit in our pockets. Even homeless people have these. It is capitalism that has given America so much food that even homeless people are fat. Its capitalism that has given us a minimum wage standard of living which is better than the majority of the globes. Like it or not, capitalism has been what has saved the first world.

UTMavThinker

"I never claimed that illegal immigrants went to school purely on the tax payer dime. "

"Are you making the case that NO illegal immigrants go to school off tax payer money?"

You can't even keep your lies straight. You truly are pathetic.

Crcata

Didn't lie lol, even your quotes of me are literally 2 different things. And the guy that I asked that specifically said that wasn't his claim, since he knows he would be wrong if he made that claim. Calling people liars just because you don't like being beaten in debate doesn't actually make them liars lol.

UTMavThinker

“who see racism where it isn't.”

“Never denied racisms existence.”

Yeah, keep lying, loser. Can't even keep consistent with yourself.

And no, capitalism is absolutely not about equal opportunity. No surprise you believe that lie, given everything else you spout. Capitalism is about those with power making more opportunity for themselves. Anything else is denying reality, which you have proved that you are so good at.

UTMavThinker

Denying illegal immigrants the right to vote? What right-wing conspiracy nonsense are you rambling about now? You want to talk about boogeymen, you ought to look at your own words.

Crcata

Incorrect again! But no surprise, you have been proven wrong definitively once this thread, I don't mind continuing to do so lol. I haven't denied racisms existent but by all means find a quote where I have denied racism exists haha. You make claims but can't even begin to justify them, yet you claim others are the liars lol, truly astounding. Capitalism has given us everything we have now. You can choose to "feel" differently, since you are an emotional thinker. But that doesn't make you correct.

UTMavThinker

lol, claiming to win a debate when you've been proven objectively to contradict yourself. Sounds just like your daddy Trump. The thing with lying is, you have to be consistent. Whereas you are just pathetic at it, just like your president, and it shows. Still waiting for you to prove your earlier point you made with zero back evidence. Oh wait, that's because you can't, because you have nothing.

Crcata

Nothing conspiratorial about it. Its objectively true that illegal immigrants have voted. And its a republican position to try and stop that.

UTMavThinker

I'm sorry, what was that about illegal immigrants voting, again? I feel like you had some point to be made there. Some other right-wing lie that you wanted to spout? Or did you realize how idiotic you were being for once?

UTMavThinker

“who see racism where it isn't.”

You just denied its existence. Are you denying your own words now?

Crcata

I simply pointed out that illegal immigrants have been caught voting. This is an objective truth. By all means deny it so I can prove you wrong (again) lol.

Crcata

Radical leftists DO see racism where it isn't. For instance the Micheal Brown shooting. Radical leftists were convinced it was an evil racist white man killing him for no reason. Turns out...thats not the case. Radical leftists were infuriated at a white boy for smiling while a grown Indian adult beat a drum in his face thinking he was being racist. Nope didn't occur again. Thats not the same thing as denying its existence....just pointing out you see it where it isn't because you have been trained to do so lol.

UTMavThinker

" Capitalism has given us everything we have now."

Like social security so the elderly don't die in poverty, medicare so the poor don't die solely for being poor, public schools, public roads, police forces, and fire fighters? Do you really want to keep making a fool out of yourself?

Crcata

You have yet to actual justify this claim that I have contradicted myself. You have tried, but of course your attempts were easily refuted. I have provided plenty of evidence and sources, you simply refuse to look at it. You won't, because the one time you did you got hit with the reality that you were wrong.

UTMavThinker

" Its objectively true that illegal immigrants have voted. And its a republican position to try and stop that. "

Is it also the Republican position to literally commit election fraud? Or do you have another name for what they did in NC? Also, there is zero evidence whatsoever of illegal immigrants voting, but that's okay, projection is the GOP's number one tactic.

Crcata

Yes, all that has come to fruition and been as effective as it has been due to capitalism. I know that may be hard for you to comprehend, but its true lol. Whats stopped the poor from dying is good healthcare provided and paid for mostly by insurance lol. Like it or not, while our system is perfect its exactly why we have the nice things we have now and one of the longest lifetimes around.

Crcata

LOL yes please continue giving me the ammo to prove you wrong. https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/19-foreign-nationals-indicted-illegally-voting-2016-elections. BOOOM! Illegals objectively did vote, its documented, proven, and handled. Thats literally twice now that you have made a claim that something didn't happen and twice now that you have been fact bombed. Seriously, you have yet to justifying any of your claims, you throw around accusations of lying willy nilly, you call people uninformed, and yet twice now I have shown you to be objectively incorrect. I thought it was willful ignorance but I am beginning to think you might just literally be uninformed. Tsk Tsk.

UTMavThinker

"Whats stopped the poor from dying is good healthcare provided and paid for mostly by insurance lol."

You really are so ignorant it hurts. The poor can't afford insurance you dunce, why do you think the ACA was drafted in the first place? But idiot regressives like you have no understanding of the greater picture. All you see is your tiny little insulated part of the world where outside ideas are shunned and feared. Educate yourself, and you might stop looking like such a fool.

UTMavThinker

Oh, and you keep harping about that FAIR report? How about you look at the real numbers: https://www.cato.org/blog/fairs-fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-study-fatally-flawed

The entire report stretches, exaggerates, or straight up lies about the numbers to the point where $3.3 billion is a more likely cost. Not surprising though, since it was created by another far-right think tank. The right simply can't win with the facts, so you lie and fear monger in a pathetic attempt to bring people to your side.

Crcata

Yes they can, that's why they literally do lol. When Obama care was effectively removed, those who lost healthcare were those who didnt want it. Our healthcare being as good and advanced as it is, is a product of capitalism. Your inability understand this doesn't make it not true.

Crcata

It used the highest possible numbers but even so you cant beat the fact that regardless of what numbers are used by any source it is a net loss for the US. Adjust the numbers to other estimates, it doesn't matter lol. It's still a net loss. We lose money due to the resources many of them use without contributing. Thanks for proving my point though lol.

UTMavThinker

lol backtracking much? REEEEE it was 127 billion dollars! Oh wait, the study was done by a partisan hack think tank and the real number is closer to 3 billion, and even that is still an estimate. The fact is, you glue yourself to right-wing talking points without even considering fact checking them or whether there is another agenda involved. And then you post those lies like they are facts and gloat about how smart you are. Truth is: you're not. You thrive in ignorance, and the fact that you have to surround yourself with such lies just proves it.

UTMavThinker

Overall country rankings for healthcare: https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/where-is-your-country-global-ranking-nations-healthcare-systems/

Notice anything in particular, like how the US isn't even in the top ten? You need to get out of this Republican bubble of American exceptionalism and the mentality that we must always be the best because 'MuricA! Get over yourself, and educate yourself.

UTMavThinker

"You said there was 0 evidence of illegal immigrants voting, I objectively proved you wrong. That's twice in this very thread. You dont have to like it, but it happened. You can insult me, bit it doesn't change the fact it happened."

Also doesn't change the fact that it didn't matter one single bit. Unlike the actual Republican election fraud that occured in NC that in fact did matter to the point that the state election board is not seating the "winner" of the election and will likely be calling for a new election.

The only way for Republicans to win elections is through fraud and through disenfranchising voters. The fact that you see demons everywhere else is just you projecting your own party's crimes.

So once again, you're wrong, you're ignorant, and you need to educate yourself.

Crcata

Haven't back tracked one bit, I provided the numbers and even elaborated further that no matter how liberal or conservative you are with the estimations they objectively result in a net loss for society. That was my point from the beginning and even with your false numbers you still have no choice but to concede its a net loss for society lol. You literally prove my point, but not its much more than 5 million by even the most conservative of estimates.

Crcata

You stated there was no evidence that it was occurring, and I objectively proved you wrong. Twice in one thread, yet you claim to be the informed one lol. It is happening, and it does matter. You seem so concerned about an unproven narrative of Trump Russia collusion yet don't care at all that illegal immigrants are influencing our election. Interesting. There is a reason that Democrats say its racist to require ID to vote, they don't want strong borders, they want to abolish ICE, etc. Its because they need voters. No amount of burying your head in the sand will change this fact from being true.

Crcata

We don't have to be the best in order to be great, and that doesn't at all refute the point I made that its all thanks to capitalism. We have all the medicines we have, the funding for them, the nutrition and the long life spans thanks to the world that capitalism helped us create.

UTMavThinker

Hahaha, you really are pathetic. 19 whole people, huh? Yeah, I bet that really threw the entire election, didn't it? Do you even understand how wrong you are? Meanwhile, Republicans literally committed voter fraud in 2018: https://www.vox.com/2018/12/28/18159460/north-carolina-election-board-9th-congressional-district-fraud.

Not voter fraud - election fraud. And their fraud most likely did indeed throw the election, to the point that the election for that district is going to be reheld. So keep telling me about how all those scary illegal immigrants are coming here trying to destroy our country, when Republicans are literally doing it right no in plain sight. I'd mention the parable of living in glass houses, but I imagine the point would go right over your head.

Crcata

You said there was 0 evidence of illegal immigrants voting, I objectively proved you wrong. That's twice in this very thread. You dont have to like it, but it happened. You can insult me, bit it doesn't change the fact it happened.

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